New Witch with Questions About Ancestors

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21

I will point you to the second half of my reply to Sedim:

The crux of what I’m getting at is this:

What is the deciding factor on the outcome to you, then? Nothing?

Because the only other explanation I can think of is Karma, which still is an outcome that is the sum of your past intention-directed decisions and actions, so it still means those forces are in play. It also means that something can be done about it after as well - as you have actually already pointed out - because obviously yes, there are things that can be done after.

My logic here is if something wasn’t done before to cause the problem, there can be no resolution. So there has to be a causal factor to your outcome.

I will also add that you can heal negative karma and deal with negative forces and spirits through non-occult Eastern-derived methods and other spiritual systems, and I’ve discovered how insanely effective these methods are. I’m sad that the couple in your story wasn’t aware of those. Knowledge can be absolutely life-saving, so I’m always in agreement with you there…

Also, more food for thought. Ancestral veneration is still widespread in the East, and the majority of people who do there aren’t occult practitioners of any kind. Yet I don’t hear about widespread suffering due to this fact. Are they all just impossibly lucky and nearly always got the lucky side of the coin, or is this 50/50 chance perhaps being offset by something else?

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Yes, when it comes to ancestor work, you are playing roulette. This is why I suggested the OP to learn the basics first before attempting to engage with ancestors. At least it gives them the tools to protect themselves.

In this particular context, your call and your intention do not matter. We reach out to ancestors because we want help, guidance, or support in our lives, but an ancestor can easily conceal aspects of their nature or agenda. They appear helpful at first, assist you for a time, and only later reveal a malicious side. This pattern has played out repeatedly for so many people who endured severe difficulties.

In some cases, an ancestor begins to demand more and more in return. When these demands are not met, that ancestor becomes hostile. In other cases, the ancestor wants to communicate messages, but the person calling them has no ability to perceive the spiritual. Out of frustration, the ancestor escalates it. Subtle signals turn into thrown objects, disturbances in the home and at work, and become increasingly aggressive as their anger grows.

Of course, there are also benevolent ancestors who respond to a call for help from their lineage. They support you and ask nothing in return. All of this makes ancestor work highly unpredictable.

Many people assume their ancestral field is limited to the names they see on a family tree, perhaps a few generations back. But your lineage stretches far beyond those few documented individuals, it is countless ancestors whose lives and intentions you know nothing about.

If you travel to the East, you’ll see that “ancestor veneration” is about praying to very specific ancestors, only a few generations back. It’s focused on known relatives, and it’s not a wide open ritual that invites anyone and everyone from the bloodline to come through. That’s a very different situation from what’s being discussed in this thread. These are two completely different things.

You also don’t often hear about the people who end up suffering because who is going to believe the stories of those who are struggling, when another portion of the population is doing perfectly fine with their ancestral practices? It’s mostly through direct experience and hearing enough of these cases from people you know that you realize how often this actually happens. And it’s more common than people think.

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It’s so confusing because I’m trying not to go in blind and reading all kinds of books but they all say things so confidently but contradicting with each other. I feel frozen as a new practitioner in what’s safe to do in the beginning.

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I used to translator to understand your message. Thank you so much, it’s very encouraging and made me a little goosebumpy!

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Радвам се на писмото ви. Желая ви сбъдване на мечтите и щастливи дни по Пътя на Съвършенството, който Път е Пътят на Магията (Знанието). Това означава и самата дума в различните езици Знаеща или Знаещ.
А относно най - близките ни роднини, съм абсолютно сигурен че те ни очакват в Отвъдния Свят, който Свят е и Свят на Духовните Същества.
Аз общувам с тях и това не е зрителна измама, а общуване потвърдено и чрез науката и съвременната техника.
Желая ви здраве!
Щастливи дни!
Тихомир Вълчев :heart: :sparkles: :herb:
Тихо

На нд, 5.07.2026 г., 19:17 ч. JennyWren <notifications@pagangrimoire.discoursemail.com> написа:

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I’d think most pagans - who’s whole practice surrounds mimicking ancient ways, are well aware of our ancient ancestors that go beyond recent generations - and specifically don’t want to work with their known ancestors for that exact reason. They know those recent generations of their family were deeply troubled people - again see the case of myself and Jenny as examples. This is why some are drawn to curate our call for these other generations after in the first place. I guess we’re all just reckless delusional people then, if what you’re saying is true.

I’m not discounting the fact that there are selfish spirits, I think that reality is obvious.

What should people like us do then? Live in fear, never make the call and potentially cut ourselves off from a huge avenue of healing, a connection with more ancient energies than ourselves deepening our spiritual practice? And if we have in fact “opened the door” should we continue to live in fear? Should we be scrambling to find a way to slam it shut? I’m basically repeating Jenny’s questions now.

My mind is spinning thinking about this. I was feeling physically ill last night. Just thinking that I may have been living totally exposed to their evil spirits for over 10 years is lowkey kind of f**king me up. I don’t think I’ve been suffering due to making that call, but now I’m questioning everything here.

I also notice that you’ve not answered this question:

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Many of us here also have spiritually derived knowledge.

You’re entitled to drawing your own conclusions, and you have a right to express them, but that doesn’t mean your opinion is necessarily superior or that you are above us.

You are still human and you too have limitations due to your human level of perception. Is the thought too threatening to consider that you might be wrong or may not have the full picture here?

I’m not going to discount your opinions or rule out the possibility that you might be right to some degree - but I also don’t see you holding all of the ultimate truths of reality in the palm of your hand. Not only do I have knowledge that apparently contradicts yours, you are still human after all.

Cheers. :trident_emblem:

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Keldan has raised some valid points that we all do well to consider (since your mind was spinning, obviously you have been doing exactly this) … I think he has only invested the energy to respond in such a manner because - in his own way- he is genuinely concerned for / cares about your well being and the well being of new practitioners.

I can certainly see the logic of what he has relayed: that it would be wise for us to have a some sort of foundation in spiritual practice - a means to protect ourselves before calling to - or diving in - the murky depths of the unconsciousness ; that ancestors can be altruistic or malevolent (it might be likened to using a Ouija board when we offer an open invitation to our ancestors). But he also mentioned ancestor work varies from person to person.

Its true. Not all of us have reached the same evolutionary stage so to speak; we are not all knit after the same fashion, our psyches may be structured differently according to what personality type we possess and wiring of our neural pathways . Our psyches might be protected differently according to the tutelary gods or spirits that we adhere to (or the stars we come from). Because of this, the experience of ancestor veneration will be reflected in those differences, and so there may be contradictions.

We all have ‘‘positive’’ and ‘‘negative’’ ancestors. Humans have good and evil propensities, whether they remain chained in the depth of our being or are expressed with abandon through base desires, primitive instincts or psychosis.

I have often recommended that people should call upon the divine spirits of their lineage (through the Name of their tutelary god/dess). These spirits are higher advanced minds and souls. But their souls and minds are structured differently than normal human psyches (or rather egos). They have divine insights and wisdom (preternatural) , existing beyond the limited and fallible human ego (along with it’s prejudice and penchant for error and misconception) . Perhaps - for some - this was ill advised. For my part – I should acknowledge what is right and proper for me could be wrong to other people, according to their circumstances, level of consciousness, system of belief and so on.

Wren – your soul has more power than your mind and every human soul is a seed from a Parent Star- a celestial deity. It wouldn’t be a true parent star if it didn’t have some form of parental instincts. Only our minds (our egos and personas) separate and distance us from this source. If we connect to the root of our tree - we can tap into the nourishing sap that flows throughout it’s branches - the guidance, blessing and support that informs all limbs and off-shoots. If we connect to the root - we may tap into the knowledge unique to each it’s members. It’s my understanding that divine souls and spirits (in your case, the Disir and Alfar) can help to facilitate this ‘‘re-membering’’.

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In hindsight, my mind was probably spinning because I’d had a terrible night of insomnia due to unrelated issues I was dealing with yesterday. Sorry that was kind of a random addition and a little TMI. If that is true though then holy hell I guess I f**ked up bad. I’m so happy I don’t have my ancestral practice anymore. Dealing with my f**ked up ancestors is not exactly how I want to spend my nights.

I see his points too. I don’t disagree with him on everything.

I agree with that. Never said I didn’t. What I disagreed with was that intent or karma had zero impact on your outcome.

I think that sounds like pretty good advice, but probably would still need to be something a practitioner works up to.

I think that’s the best approach to giving any advice. That’s being very fair!

I admit I never tried to work with the Disir and Alfar when I was a Norse Pagan. That sounds like an interesting approach. I’m not sure how well that would work in my current practice though.

Thanks for your input! :trident_emblem:

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And I’m pretty much repeating myself for the third time now. I’m already sharing my spiritual experience by saying that one should learn the basics first before they jump into ancestor work. So why do you keep bringing fear into the conversation?

If anyone wants to lead with fear, that’s their choice. I already said that OP hasn’t opened the door yet, which means they have nothing to worry about. And if they still decide to start working with ancestors after only a few weeks of practice, that’s also their choice.

I’ve basically answered you before you even asked the question. Reread my previous comment after your first quote from me.

You have no awareness of people who suffer because the ancestors they worked with turned out to be malicious. This is actually a common situation. If I hadn’t brought it up, we probably wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Is the idea so threatening to you that you assume anyone whose experience contradicts yours must be wrong? Because what you’re implying is that all the people my spirits have known and helped in the past were wrong, even though their lives were suffering before they met us. That their experiences couldn’t be valid just because they don’t match your own?

You’ve already discounted my perspective simply because you haven’t experienced it yourself, nor have you helped anyone in similar situations. This is exactly why I said I’m speaking from spiritual knowledge and experience, not just from a personal story. Just because one person has a positive experience doesn’t mean the next person will have the same outcome.

If you want more information, you can look up accounts from people who have malicious ancestors, do some divination, and summon their spirits to get the juicy details. You can find the answers for yourself. And just because you feel shaken by the information I’ve shared doesn’t give you the right to lash out at me. Other people are allowed to have opinions and experiences that differ from yours.

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Ok, well then let me clarify as simply as I can by responding to that post:

And I agree.

But I am aware of negative ancestors and spirits. Hell I might be one of those people, and I’m starting to look at that possibility.

That is not my assumption, far from it. I admit I’m wrong all the time.

I have not stated that I have discounted your perspective at all. I see your points.

I’m not trying to start a fight, that was not at all my intent.

Anyway, I think this conversation is done. I don’t want it to devolve into something more uncivil. If there’s anything that I may have said that didn’t make sense, you can PM me for clarity.

May everyone be at peace. :lotus:

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Hey JennyWren! This is such a good question and something that I think a lot of people with… hmm… iffy ancestry grapple with. In my experience, I resisted the idea of ancestor veneration for a while because, as a white person living in Canada in a family with only vague ideas about our heritage, all I really knew for sure about my family history is that several of them must have been colonizers, and I didn’t want to reach out to those people.

But the truth is that my (and your!) ancestors go back further than colonization. They go back further than christianity, they go back further than humans as we know them today.

I know you’ve got a LOT of book reviews already in this thread, but alas that is the nature of the craft i’m afraid :stuck_out_tongue: I’m going to give a shout out to my personal favourite book on ancestor veneration, Honouring your Ancestors by Mallorie Vaudoise. I’ll admit, I haven’t quite finished reading it, and I don’t resonate with everything in it, but there are some really excellent insights. One is that your ancestors aren’t a monolith or a vauge ghostly collection of spirits, they are people who lived. You don’t have to talk to the ones you don’t like. You can reach backwards in time to the ancestors who reach forward to you. Another thing you should remember is that your ancestors are no longer alive, they do not run your life. They can give you advice, even advice that they think is good and helpful, and you can choose to ignore it. You’re in the drivers seat of your life, your ancestors (and any other spirits you work with) are in the passenger seat, but they’re not going to grab the wheel.

Starting to work with spirits can be scary, especially when coming from a tradition that preaches fear of spirits and that they want to hurt you. But they don’t have to be scary. Whenever I work with spirits I make sure to include ‘that mean harm to none’ or something like that as a caveat to the invite, and make sure my wards are secure. Warding and cleansing are great places to start if you’re feeling nervous, and knowing that you can protect yourself.

That’s my answer to your last question, by the way. If you don’t want to/don’t feel ready to call on your ancestors or other spirits for guidance and protection right now, you literally don’t have to. I mean, I think it can be a great practice when you feel ready, but no matter what anyone might tell you, you don’t have to do anything that you don’t feel called to. Unless you are adhering to a specific structured religious practice like wicca, your craft and practice is first and foremost YOURS. Listen to what people have to say, read widely (though try and get books from the library when you can! ask about interlibrary loan if your public library doesn’t have a book you’re looking for, or look for online libraries!), but know that at the end of the day your intuition and your higher self are going to be your best guides. I have a lot of books on witchcraft that I genuinly love and think have great advice, but I don’t resonate with everything in them, and that’s fine. I take what serves me and leave what doesn’t. The best thing I ever learned in this practice is that there is no doing it wrong, only doing what’s wrong for you. Practice listening to what your intuition tells you, and trusting in it. You have the power and ability already inside you to be able to protect yourself, you just have to give yourself the chance to believe that you can <3<3

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I think mostly after I started the little ritual I just got this strong feeling, maybe from one of my ancestors, that I should do some protection spell work before I start inviting anonymous people in. That made good sense to me I just wasn’t sure where to start now and if I’d made a very big mistake by not doing the protection first. I think one of the things my reading has shown me is that this isn’t just some cute little hobby and you can get yourself a sticky wicket if you don’t pay attention.

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My books finally arrived today! I’d read three books previously but they were all so different from one another that I was getting very confused so I stopped reading until these books arrived. Yay! Thank you so much for the recommendations. :smiling_face:

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Thankful Thursday Jenny,

So, glad you received your books, that was fast!!

Lady Gene :wink:

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